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27 comments so far

  1. Saul B. on

    CHALLENGE ANYONE WHO WOULD USE THE WORD OCCUPATION**

    IT IS TIME WE PUSHED BACK AGAINST THE ATTEMPT TO REDEFINE THE WORD “OCCUPATION” AS REFERRING ONLY TO SOME UNSPEAKABLE CRIME COMMITTED BY ISRAEL. AS IF IT WERE A RARE DISEASE WHOSE ORIGINS ARE UNKNOWN AND BY DEFINITION BRANDS THE OCCUPYER AS GUILTY. PRESIDENT OBAMA USED THE WORD, IN THAT SENSE, IN HIS CAIRO SPEECH AS DID SHEIK ALI GOMAA IN A RECENT ARTICLE IN THE WALL STREET JOURNAL. NOTICE, THAT ARABS AND THEIR SUPPORTERS BEGIN THEIR STATEMENTS, “IN 1967 ISRAEL OCCUPIED++. THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN DISCUSSING HOW IT CAME ABOUT NOR WHY IT PERSISTS. WOULD YOU, FELLOW Z STREET COMMENTATORS,JOIN ME IN COMPOSING A BRIEF, ACCURATE STATEMENT OF THE HISTORY SURROUNDING THE OCCUPATION OF THE WEST BANK AND GAZA. THEN PEOPLE HAVE THE FACTS TO CHALLENGE THOSE WHO WOULD DEFAME ISRAEL BY SIMPLY THROWING OUT THIS CODED WORD. THIS IS A BATTLE I THINK WE CAN WIN.
    THE INTERNET DICTIONARY WIKIPEDEA DEFINES OCCUPATION AS: “CONTROL OF A TERRITORY BY A MILITARY FORCE”
    YES,THE OCCUPATION OF THE TERRITORIES KNOWN AS GAZA AND THE WEST BANK CAME ABOUT AS A RESULT OF A WAR. IN 1967, PRESIDENT NASSER OF EGYPT* THREATENED TO “THROW THE JEWS INTO THE SEA”. HE THEN PRECIPITATED A STATE OF WAR BY;
    A)EJECTING FROM THE SINAI, THE UN EMERGENCY FORCE THAT WAS MAINTAINING A TRUCE BETWEEN EGYPT AND ISRAEL-AN ACT OF WAR B)EGYPT BROUGHT UP SEVERAL ARMED DIVISIONS TO ISRAELS INTERNATIONAL BORDER-AN ACT OF WAR C)ARAB COUNTRIES CLOSED OFF INTERNATIONAL WATERWAYS TO ISRAELI SHIPPING-AN ACT OF WAR.
    ISRAEL ACTED IN ITS DEFENSE AND WHEN A TRUCE WAS ENFORCED, ISRAEL OCCUPIED GAZA AND THE WEST BANK. THIS IS HOW WARS START AND THESE ARE ITS CONSEQUENCIES.
    ISRAEL HAS, ON THREE OCCASIONS, OFFERED REASONABLE PEACE TERMS TO THE PALESTINIANS. EACH TIME THE PEACE WAS REFUSED AND NO COUNTER PROPOSAL WAS MADE. THERE HAVE BEEN ARAB PEACE PROPOSALS BUT THEY ALL REQUIRED THE RETURN OF UP TO 4 MILLION REFUGEES INTO ISRAEL. THE END OF ISRAEL. AND SO, THE WAR CONTINUES AS DOES THE OCCUPATION.
    THREE YEARS AGO, ISRAEL UNILATERALLY ENDED ED ITS OCCUPATION OF GAZA WITHOUT A MUTUALLY AGREED UPON PEACE TREATY. THE ARABS OF GAZA REINSTITUTED HOSTILE WAR ACTIONS BY BOMBARDING ISRAEL WITH THOUSANDS OF KATUSHA ROCKETS. THE WAR IS PROLONGED.
    FATEH, AT A MEETING IN AUGUST, 2009 RESERVED THE RIGHT TO CONTINUE THE ARMED STRUGGLE. ONLY A LEVANTINE MIND CAN LIVE WITH THESE CONTRADICTIONS A)CONTINUE FIGHTING A LOST WAR B)REFUSE TO ACCEPT REASONABLE PEACE TERMS THEN C) COMPLAIN TO THE WORLD ABOUT THE INJUSTICE OF A PROLONGED OCCUPATION

    IN VIEW OF THESE PRECEDENTS, HOW DOES ISRAEL END ITS OCCUPATION? WHILE SEATED ON THIS TIGER YOU ARE RELATIVELY SAFE, BUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DISMOUNT?
    *see Wikipedea GAMEL ABDEL NASSER

    • Filala on

      I suggest we stop using the word “occupation” when speaking about the West Bank – it is not “occupied” it is, at this time “disputed” territory. We are not in Gaza at all. If the Gazan’s want a better life they should change their government.

  2. Alex89 on

    It’s interesting, because just like nenne, Japanese shares this with Hindi. ,

  3. SAUL BARR on

    NOW IS THE TIME TO ELICIT A RESPONSE FROM PRES. OBAMA ON THE FAILURE OF HIS ARAB/ISRAELI POLICY.1) SAUDI ARABIA REFUSED TO MAKE A GESTURE OF PEACE TOWARDS ISRAEL, 2) THE FATAH CONFERENCE DEMANDS DESTROYED ANY PROSPECT FOR PEACE. THEY SEEM TO BE DEMANDING AN ISRAELI SURRENDER 3) A NEW MILITANT ISLAMIST GROUP HAS ARISEN IN GAZA. NEGOTIATING PEACE WITH THESE EXTREMISTS IS BEYOND COMPREHENSION. OBAMA MUST BE FORCED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THESE EVENTS AND TO DESCRIBE HIS FUTURE POLICY IN LIGHT OF THESE FAILURES.

    • Filala on

      I’m afraid that Pres. Obama does not see the failure of his Arab/Israeli policy. He is pretty open about saying that Israel is the one to make concessions and I seriously doubt he would or could be able to get concessions from the Arabs. The Arab position never changes, no Jewish State in Palestine – period.

  4. Avner Levy on

    No Jewish presence in Palestine?
    – Most people ignore that the 20th century Shoah is the third (to be modest) of the name and that between 67 and 135 CE, over 3 million Jews were massacred or enslaved by Roman armies. And the rest became diaspora.

    So much for Arabs claiming there was never any Jewish presence in what they call Palestine.

    Jews took land from Palestinians?
    – Most people ignore that most pre-1948 land has been purchased. This represented a small portion of the land.

    But when Arab patrolled villages telling people to leave, they’d come back shortly after killing the Jews, Israeli told them to stay. They didn’t, mostly because Arabs claimed Jews were raping Arab women.
    This is well documented even by Arab reporters, google.

    Arab Naqba? What about the mostly 800,000 Jews expelled from Arab countries – often with one day notice, at the same time, people who had lived there for centuries, leaving with one suitcase, what about the forced declarations “donating” property to Arab states? And what about the pogroms that followed?

    The amount of money stolen is now worth over 80 billion dollars. Why aren’t they “compensated” by UN unlike Palestinians?

    And what about the surface of lands belonging to Jews ‘confiscated’ by Arabs? 38,625 sq miles, whereas the surface of Israel is 7,992 sq miles!

    So when such events happen, and you can return home, you are encline to have it with walls, so you can protect it and yourself, not to be left at the mercy of some lunatic, not an open house like a binational state even if larger.
    As demography favors Arabs anyway, even if living conditions improve and their natality rate decreases.

    Avner

  5. Norman Berdichevsky on

    Reply to Pro-Israel Aemrican Evangelical

    Please don’t despair. Many Jews in the United States whose parents and grandparents rejoiced at the rebirth of Israel in 1948 and regarded it mystically as partial compensation for the Holocaust have been psychologically intimidated by the constant anti-Israel line of the media and of the torrent of bloody confrontations picturing enraged Muslim mobs ready for constant mayhem to avenge what they regard as the worst injustice in human history (i.e. the creation of the Jewish State rather than the failure to establish an Arab Palestinian state).

    Some prominent Diaspora Jews, particularly among those who cannot escape the narcotic-like trance they have inherited as “progressives” and are essentially aggressively secular and ultra-critical of capitalism and American society with its underlying Christian values, have developed a new kind of psychological self-hatred to exhibit a disassociation from the State of Israel and their religious heritage. They are upset over the close Israeli-American friendship and competed among themselves in mindless and slanderous attacks on President Bush.

    They have now found a new way to assuage their consciences for the sins nearer to home of racism they imagine they are also responsible for as whites. They easily see Israel’s many flaws (both real and imagined) among which, the worst is that Israel, like America is a “privileged” society enjoying wealth amidst a world of misery. They flatter themselves that they are the modern day prophets who see “the writing on the subway walls” (as Paul Simon sung). They have earned for themselves the justifiable contempt of most Israeli Jews (both religious and secular) for their moral duplicity.

    As long ago as 1958, this trend of a major split among American Jews was clearly seen in the interviews given by Leon Uris, the author of the best selling novel “Exodus” in explaining why he wrote the book. He had in mind successful Jewish authors such as Philip Roth, Saul Bellow and Bernard Melamud whom he called “professional apologists” (for being Jews). Uris set out to tell the story of Israel’s rebirth as the story of Jewish heroes rather than the psychological analyses of individuals who grew up damning their fathers and hating their mothers and wondering why they were born.

    Uris unapologetically made a pro-Israel film only a decade after every Jewish movie producer had turned down making the film “Gentleman’s Agreement” (1947; starring Gregory Peck) about polite anti-Semitism. The Jewish film producers (“moguls”) did not want to appear as espousing a specifically Jewish cause. It was made into a film by the great Greek-American producer, Elia Kazan who was later turned on with vengeance for cooperating with the House un-American Activities Committee revealing communist influence in Hollywood. Uris himself has been in the front lines in Guadalcanal and Tarawa island and felt an immense respect for the Israelis who had defeated the invading Arab armies and defied the legion of pro-Arab diplomats in the British Foreign Office and the leadership of the Labor Party (a sin the British Left has never forgiven).

    Today’s crowd of “progressive” Jewish actors and entertainers so active in the campaign to elect Obama outdo even the writers Uris attacked fifty years ago. Woody Allen, Barbra Streisand, Dustin Hoffman and Richard Dreyfus are among the most visible and acidic critics of American policy world wide B.O. (Before Obama) and are sarcastically referred to in Israel as “beautiful souls” by those who reject their elitism of supposed high moral values so out of place in the Arab Middle East and as remote from the real world as were the great majority of the victims of the Holocaust whose Jewish values prevented them from attributing such evil to the Germans.

    Whatever the differences between secular and religious Israelis, they pale before the monumental differences that separate life in the State of Israel with all its inherent promises, risks and dangers from the Diaspora’s ultra idealized concerns and sensibilities. Amreican Jews are slowly and painfully coming to the realization that their misguided support of the leftward drift within the Democratic Party characterized by racial politics and “affirtmative action” (whose first victims will always be Jews, Japanese and Chinese=Americans) is self-defeating not only for Istael but themselves.

  6. Mrs.Z on

    I have some questions.

    As a Pro-Israel American evangelical, does my support help or hinder your efforts?

    I know our tourist dollars are of benefit to Israel, but what about our outspoken political support?

    Do liberal US Jews hold see our support as further reason to suspect Israel?

    I really do not understand liberal US Jew’s antagonism toward Israel. If it ceased to exist, would they take their bothers and sisters into their own homes? If Israel were no more, doesn’t that translate into millions more dead Jews?

    • Noam on

      Mrs. Z you are on the side of the angels. You have no need to ask permission; your support is wonderful and welcome !!!

  7. Yosef Rabin on

    As a former IDF combat solider, soon to be Oleh (immigrant to Israel) and long time activist I am very happy to see that Z-Street is becoming a force! However one thing concerns me greatly, Z-Street is relying on secular foundations alone, there is not one mention of Torah or God in the charter! The charter must make mention of the Torah command for the Jewish People to live in and be sovereign over the Land of Israel. Just like no one dares argue with the Muslim right to Mecca or the right of the Church to Vatican city no one can argue with our religious-national right to the Land of Israel. In addition Jews in America must understand that Zionism did not start with Herzel, but with our forefather Abraham almost 4,000 years ago.

    Your organization is picking up steam and I truly think it will become a mass-popular effort. Please do not loose this opportunity to teach the American Jewish masses and America at large what Zionism is all about.

    In addition I am moving to Israel on Aug 31, if you would like a Israeli director I might be able to fulfill that role. We could try to make a simultaneous rally in Jerusalem outside the US consulate.

    Please let me know,

    Yosef Rabin

    773-885-9889

    • Avner Levy on

      Good point Yosef. I am a veteran of Six-Day and Kippur war (says about my age 🙂

      The dimension of being a Jew goes beyond secularism, but anyway there is no point in being a secular state.

      IMO, Jews “should” adhere to all Moshe’s commandments and reflect in his/her everyday life, and practice tsedakah, tikkun olam, etc.

      Avner

    • Simantov2003 on

      Congratulations on your aliyah to Israel. I just re-read the Charter and see where Article X states Israel’s right to exist as a sovereign Jewish State. It’s a sad problem that so many Jews will not use the Biblical source of our right to the Land. My guess is that Z Steet wants the participation of all people who support Israel, not just the religious ones.

      Avner Levy’s comment is right on!

  8. The Lies on

    zionist=living on a lie

  9. Lori Lowenthal Marcus on

    From member Stephen Asbel:

    How about a definition of “Land of Israel.” The Land of Israel extends east of the Jordan River including the Jordan Valley and the plains of Gilad. The pre-state Zionist leadership acquiesced to slicing off the eastern lands in the partition of 1922 to become part of the Emirate of Transjordan.

    BTW, in the Feisal-Weizman agreement which was never implemented (due to French and British machinations), the Jewish state would have included land east of the Jordan River while Emir Feisal of the Hashemites would have ruled over what is now Syria, Lebanon, the remainder of what is now Jordan and Iraq. The French refused to let Feisal into Damascus to set up his new kingdom and the deal collapsed.

  10. Itamar on

    The greatest example of resistance to anti-semitism is of course the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, which was lead by non-other than Progressive Zionists (at the time they were called Socialist Zionists). Yes, right-wing groups were involved as well, but the largest numbers of fighters and the main organizers were the members of the youth movements Dror and Hashomer Hatzayir, both Socialist Zionist youth movements.

    These movements understood that Jewish autonomy is of the utmost necessity, but they also understood that the fate of the Jewish people is interwoven with the fate of all peoples. They envisioned a Jewish State that leads the global fight against Fascism, racism, and inequality.

    Today, we have achieved Jewish autonomy. Yes, there are threats but we are owners of the strongest military power in the region. We need to resume the fight against facsism, racism, and inequality by showing that a strong Jewish state can embrace different peoples, can create positive economic interdependence with our neighbors, and can lead the way to a stable and peaceful middle east. That is the fight of a truly proud Zionist.

    • dannykid on

      You are right Itmar and you are describing Israel as it is today: “a strong Jewish state (that) can embrace different peoples, can create positive economic interdependence with our neighbors, and can lead the way to a stable and peaceful middle east”. But it takes two to tango.

      • Itamar on

        I believe Israel has that potential, and I think until the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin this was the case. Since then, and especially since 2000, things have obviously gone down hill. Now I don’t blame the government of Israel entirely as clearly every attempted government of the Palestinians has been inept. Meanwhile Arab rulers have thrived off of distracting their citizens with the exaggerated crimes of the “Zionist entity.” But this situation is changing as the governments of Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia (not to mention the PA itself) have all taken some steps against the will of their populations, condemning Hamas at times and proposing region-wide peace (see the Saudi proposal). Israel must reach it’s hand out and grab this opportunity, but folks in the shtachim (and on this site?) seem to hold on to messianic notions of claiming the entire Biblical Land of Israel, using the failed leadership of the Palestinians as an excuse to work toward religious war.

  11. Norman Berdichevsky on

    Congratulations to the organizers of Z-Street. This is an initiative that is long overdue – like the belated arousal of American Jews to the truth of the Holocaust and the response to the urgent need for arms and volunteers during Israel’s War of Independence in 1948.

    When Jews actually organized successful REAL resistance to anti-Semitism in DEEDS and not just words on a major scale – in the riots against the pro-Nazi Friends of the New Germany and the German-American Bund in Newark, New Jersey, (see Nazis in Newark by Warren Grover, 2003, Transaction Publishers), the initiative was wholly on the part of conservative leaning Jewish war veterans with battle experience, prizefighters, gangsters and plumbers, machinists, glaziers, butchers and upholsterers with muscle power and not by so called activists on the Left or pious statements by “progressive” Rabbis and liberal leaning commentators. The same was true in Great Britain where the 1943 Group took to the streets of East London to forcefully evict the remnants of Mosley’s British Union of Fascists after World War II in defiance of the requests by the establishment British Board of Deputies who pleaded not to “rock the boat” and their appeal that Jews should not act as vigilantes but leave their protection to the police (see The 43 Group by Morris Beckman, 1992; A Centerprise Publication, London).

    Much the same sad story has been repeated in Western Europe where the Jewish establishment is afraid of the truth that the overhwelming amount of vile anti-semitic actions comes from the Muslim minorities and not the “Right”. A leading part in this denial has come from Rabbis of various “progressive” persuasions including those supported by the state and officially accorded the title of “Chief Rabbi”.

    The long dormant majority among Jewish liberals is still ignorant of the perfidious roles played by the New York Times and the BBC and other European media in their decades long campaign of slander against the Jewish state and their incredible acts of somersault to excuse vicious anti-Semitism on the part of angry paranoid Muslims both home and abroad.

    Even though Israel’s withdrawal from Southern Lebanon led to the disintegration of the Southern Lebanese Army composed of indigenous Lebanese Arabs opposed to the Palestinian presence in their country and included both Shi’ites and Christians, the end result -their exile and Hizbullah domination of the South was only to be “regretted”. For the media, any act that weakens Israel no matter how destructive or threatening to innocent lives (like urging a halt to any security fence) is regarded as positive.

  12. Roberto on

    Arabs can only rule a binational state under sharia,meaning non muslims are dhimmi,and, therefore,second or third class citizens.Only dogs, pigs and women(in that order)are treated worse.That is what they mean by “convivencia”,another sorelian myth repeated like something highly desirable by all leftists and jihadists.Even Obama believes in it (just not politically correct, yet,to say it).But,our most dangerous enemies are not the ones already mentioned, but the J street crowd.They sow doubt and division in the Jewish community regarding the zionist ideology and the right ownership of Palestine by Jews.They constantly talk (on purpose)about “compromise”,unacceptable for Muslims, who expect with “surrender”(their sole and ultimate goal).This creates havoc among Jews,always open to “live and let live”.Muslims (due to theological ideology)and the liberal-progressive left(due to deep hate of Jews)see one possible “compromise”: complete surrender,or submission,the name of their religion.Jews should be proud and not afraid to say: I am a Zionist and throw back to our enemies their racist,discrminatory and violent ideologies.Read Marx,Lenin,S.Qutb,Sorel,Hitler,etc and learn how to fight their speeches.

  13. Yehudit on

    Arab-ruled bi-national state = every other jihad-ridden human-rights-wrecking racist imperialist totalitarian Arab state. Just what the world needs, another one of those.

  14. Norman Berdichevsky on

    Congratulations ! I am a regular contributor to the New English Review website and thought you might like to repost this article of mine,,,,,,

    The Z Word and a Search for Personal Identity
    by Norman Berdichevsky (Dec. 2006)

    The most grotesque aspect of the intense anti-Israel campaign orchestrated by the Arab states and Iranian President Ahmadinejad is their stated obsession to wipe Israel off the face of the map and “imagine” (which is all they can do at the moment) a “World Without Zionism”. They have at their beck and call a large “pliant majority” of U.N. member states ready, willing and able to join this crusade or keep silent. In so doing they ignore not only the millennial old tie of the Jews to their land but distort an important theme in Western civilization stemming not only from the Bible and two thousand years of Judeo-Christian tradition but even the Koran (Surah 17: 104). The “Z word” has been pirated, perverted, parodied and prostituted and linked with a hideous and infamous “racist”, “apartheid regime” tied to a pariah state and people.

    Continue reading: http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm?frm=4753&sec_id=4753

  15. Yigal on

    Looks like Progressive Zionist ( whatever that means….(maybe Apeasing Post Zionist…or maybe Zionist lite ?)
    Has already divided Yerushalaim for us here.
    Thanks but no thanks “progressive APEASER “

  16. Settler = Anti-Zionist = Thief.

    Greater Israel = Arab-ruled bi-national state.

    • Lori Lowenthal Marcus on

      Great! We have our first snarky crybaby. But its too ridiculous to spend any time on, so I’ll just put up his post.

    • Leslie White on

      Sounds as if this is an arab; if it isn’t it is one of those creatures that has made cause with the arabs against that of the Jews. Ignore or terminate without prejudice.

  17. yisroel on

    zionism in my opinion is equal for the desire to palestenian statehood

    but not jewish state im not talking about halachic enforcement but jewish state as a place to be jews and be jewish

  18. Lori Lowenthal Marcus on

    Yisrael Medad offers the following:

    “Settler” = revenant;
    resident “Settlement” = community; village; town
    “Settle” = establish residency;


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